Make Streets Safer- For Chicago Sun Times Readers

[TonySoprano]

To anyone who reads the Chicago Sun Times.

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I take great offense to the recent editorial concerning the need to ban "assult weapons". However, I will only focus on the comment, "We supported the federal ban because gang members love these weapons and police officers hate them and want them off the street." I have several family members whom are retired police officers, and friends who are currently serving on the Peoria County Police Department. All of them, including myself support our Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms.  I do not appreciate the media (democrat Chicago) misstating facts and using police to add credibility to their anti-gun propaganda. I would like to see every law-abiding American armed.  Guns don't scare me. Criminals with guns do.  And guess what? The criminals already have and will continue to carry guns no matter what laws we pass. What we need are laws that lock up, for a very long time, anyone who commits a crime with a gun, any gun.  We also need more judges willing to do their jobs. :D

[Homer]

When they gave us the right to bear arms I don't think they envisioned assault weapons. They should be banned.

I don't think our forefathers meant you should have the right to bear an M-16 or some other high powered assault weapon.

[bob@pogopal]

I disagree Homer.

The founding fathers envisioned an armed militia ready and willing to defend freedom. An assault rifle is much more useful for defending freedom than for robbing liquor stores. A shotgun works best for robbery and always has.

[ronandamee1]

Arms are Arms my man. I don't think our Forefathers meant for alot of the things we do today!!! ie. Invading foreign countries and all thes stupid laws passed to control our citizens. Ist a $300 fine for not wearing a seatbelt, but you can ride a motorcycle without a helmet. Freedom gets a little less free every year. The thing that pisses me off the most is the power of the police. Why can't I tell a cop to go F himself? That idiot on the worlds scariest police videos says.
This guy did not respect the badge-now he can respect prison guards and every other stupid line he says. Isn't it enough that you cannot carry a gun unless you never had anything above a traffic stop. Our forefathers meant the right to bear arms. Now you have to jump through hoops for permission. And the lawmakers know nothing about real life. They were all rich their whole lives. We are given certain people we can vote for and thats it. What did Bush ever do to deserve to be president. He was probably never even in a fistfight or never was hungry or only had $15 to last til next weeks payday. What does daddy's boy know about what I need?

[DEBKARLAR]

We also need more judges willing to do their jobs. 

with minimum mandates the law is taken out of many judges hands

[TonySoprano]

When they gave us the right to bear arms I don't think they envisioned assault weapons. They should be banned.

I don't think our forefathers meant you should have the right to bear an M-16 or some other high powered assault weapon.

I can respect your opinion, however  "assult rifles" are much less accurate, less powerful and more costly to use then most guns legally on the market today. For example I have a bolt action 5 shot Remington .270.  I can hit a dead center shot at 200 to 300 yards through a tree trunk more than 12 inches think. A Winchester 30/30 (around since 1800's) is more powerful than a 5.56 or 7.62 caliber (m-16, AK47). With the right shooter you can pop those round off just as fast as with an assult rifle.  Look up the stats in the U.S. Crime Index and you will see assult rifles are used in a very small percentage of crimes in the U.S.  Most assult rifle owners are legimitate sports men who shoot for fun and competition, in addition to protecting their families.  What criminal wants to spend on average 500-1200$ on an assult rifle when a shotgun, or handgun is available for 100$ at any retail store.

[fatkid]

Tony do think that any US citizen should be allowed to hold on to weapon's grade plutonium?

In reality I don't see gun control laws having a HUGE impact on current crime and violence rates in the U.S.  I tend to think Chris Rock said it best, "You don't need no gun control. You know what you need? Bullet control. I think all bullets should cost $5000. You know why? If a bullet cost $5000 there'd be no more innocent bystanders."... I figure if the "animals" want to kill each other, then fine... Let 'em have at it... But there NEEDS to be some kind of protection in place to protect children from playing with guns and shooting themselves or friends... There needs to be a protection for kids who come to school to learn, to play, hell even to sleep, only to wind up being shot to death, or even having to witness the deaths of others...  Why add to the already problematic system of rehabilitation  for criminals by throwing more and more and more people in jail?  Why not look deeper into the problem?  Instead of giving into fear, that's right FEAR, try to find a solution... This is one of my key problems with life in this great US of A... We have an entire culture that lives by fear... 

Conversation between Michael Moore and Marilyn Manson from the movie Bowling For Columbine

Marilyn Manson: The two by-products of that whole tragedy were, violence in entertainment, and gun control. And how perfect that that was the two things that we were going to talk about with the upcoming election. And also, then we forgot about Monica Lewinsky and we forgot about, uh, the President was shooting bombs overseas, yet I'm a bad guy because I, well I sing some rock-and-roll songs, and who's a bigger influence, the President or Marilyn Manson? I'd like to think me, but I'm going to go with the President.
Michael Moore: Do you know that on the day of the Columbine massacre, the US dropped more bombs on Kosovo than any other day?
Marilyn Manson: I do know that, and I think that's really ironic, that nobody said 'well maybe the President had an influence on this violent behavior' Because that's not the way the media wants to take it and spin it, and turn it into fear, because then you're watching television, you're watching the news, you're being pumped full of fear, there's floods, there's AIDS, there's murder, cut to commercial, buy the Acura, buy the Colgate, if you have bad breath they're not going to talk to you, if you have pimples, the girl's not going to f**ck you, and it's just this campaign of fear, and consumption, and that's what I think it's all based on, the whole idea of 'keep everyone afraid, and they'll consume.'

Why not address the real problems behind the crime?  Things like poverty, racism, and class distinction?  Why not work at finding a real solution instead of simply adding fuel to the fire?  Why not work to create a society where guns would never be needed?

Uggg... Just gonna shut my mouth for now... Gun nuts drive me up the wall, and this is one topic I can't keep quite on for two long...

Admins, if you have to close down this thread because of me, I apologize well in advanced, and I'll do my best to keep this one relevant and civil.  :)

[TonySoprano]

Yes, I'm a proud gun nut! I figured this would be a heated thread since you go one way or the other way.  Try to keep it civil and remember to respect one anothers opinions! We might disagree on one topic but there are many others we agree on.    :D

[bob@pogopal]

Fatkid,

The real problem behind crime is human nature and the variance of personality types. I suggest you read _Inside the Criminal Mind_ by Stanton Samenow.

There are plenty of millionaires who commit crimes. Most criminals are the same race as their victims. Most criminals are in the same socioeconomic class as their victims.

I don't know who has filled your brain with such nonsense, but it is nonsense. The platitudes you cite do not stand up to empirical scrutiny.

[ronandamee1]

What about all the Drug related deaths? Take a look at this http://www.drugwarfacts.org/causes.htm. More people die from smoking and alcohol than homicide. Why don't we worry about the stuff thats not in the constitution first.

[fatkid]

Fatkid,

The real problem behind crime is human nature and the variance of personality types. I suggest you read _Inside the Criminal Mind_ by Stanton Samenow.

Just FYI, I want to reply to this whole comment, but first I do want to read this book (will look when I am at work tomorow).  Second I want to do a little research to make sure I get all my facts correct and documented.  So I am preparing a reply, I just want to make sure it comes out correctly. :)

[TonySoprano]

Tony do think that any US citizen should be allowed to hold on to weapon's grade plutonium?
 Why not work to create a society where guns would never be needed?
Uggg... Just gonna shut my mouth for now... Gun nuts drive me up the wall,

Fatkid,
I quoted that from one of your posts up above. What is really ironic is this post from a different topic that you responded to under title "NEED TOO LITE A FIRE UNDER SOMEONE'S BUTTE COULD USE SOME HELP ON THIS ONE"  ::)

Easiest option... Shoot them...
Being a college student myself (a quite the partier, if I do say so myself), you really have no other options but to shoot somebody... Most college boys don't really care too much about going to jail for the night... Hell, since summer has started I've had to spend the night in the drunk tank 4 times, and have been charged with underage consumption and minor in possetion 3 times... Will the 5-0 stop me?  Probably not... Do they stop the parties at our house?  Yeah for the night it closes down, but the next night we're right back at it again...
So like I said, if you really want someone to take you seriously you probably should shoot one of them... That's should get their attention... :-

Shoot them?  :-*

[fatkid]

aka sarcasm...  ::)

[Element]

lol  ;D

[TonySoprano]

a year or somthing ago someone tried to break into my aunts house and she walked in on him and the guy(it was actually a kid) had a hammer and he startted hitting my aunt in the face with it...if my grandpa didnt show up with his gun she probably would have been killed, but my aunt got all of her front teeth knocked out  :-[  :'( The kid ran off and was never caught.

if my grandpa didnt show up with his gun she probably would have been killed

[fatkid]

And what if his grandpa had only had a baseball bat? Or his fists? Or a knife?  Would any of them been less affective in scaring off the crook?  You don't have to have a gun to scare people away...  :-\

[TonySoprano]

 ::)

[bob@pogopal]

And when the criminal laughs at grandpa for bringing a knife to a gunfight? ? Just curious.

[fatkid]

"a year or somthing ago someone tried to break into my aunts house and she walked in on him and the guy(it was actually a kid) had a hammer"

Found the book you suggested bob, and have started reading... Before I put my Big reply up about this I want to finish this up...

[TonySoprano]

This should be interesting..  :D