[Split] Paul Johnson

[admin]

Muslims all over the world go to their friday prayers and get an earful of "blame the jews, hate all non Muslims, kill all non Muslims, commit suicide for sex, etc." The entire religion is an insane death cult.

Muslim = violence

Man, look at what you're saying! I was really trying to sit on may hands for this one, but it is scary to see you blaming every Muslim (all 2 billion of them) and their faith for what's going on. The terrorists are extremists with views that are not shared with most Muslims. Clearly not every Muslim is a terrorist. I am sickened to see someone with such a flawed view of the Muslim faith.

[Blue Aquarius]

Ok, I wasn't going to reply to this thread because too many opinions can differ and don't want to get into an argument on the web.  But, how in the world can you Fog blame everything that is happening over in Iraq or Afghanistan on muslims?  That really is an ignorant statement.  I think maybe everyone should go and read Soaring's post again because this young adult has more common sense then alot of people posting in this thread right now.  It's a shame that this thread that was meant to be a good thread dedicated to an american who was killed has been hijacked into a spewing fest of who did what to whom.  God Bless all the families that have been effected by this war in one way or another.

[fatkid]

WOW Foghorn.... congrats
You made a very good statement and opened my eyes and hopefully a few more....
You are so right..... WHY do they think its right to show the prision pictures 100 times a day in Magazines, newspapers and Television.... yet not show any photos of what has been done to the americans..  Our media tries to make this violence look one sided and like we are the bad guys.... hmmmmmm now that you brought it to my attention... I wonder why.   

You know why we don't show the photos? Because they are too disgusting...  Have you seen the video of Mr. Berg or the photos of Mr. Johnson?  I have, and I will really never be the same... They are images you just can't get rid of...  Do I want my children to see the horrors of war?  I hope that my children would never have to see a single war in their entire lives...  It's the same reason you don't see the 1000s of piles of bodies from the dead Iraqi children... As I've reported there are over half a million so far, but when have you seen them on TV?  Broken and sick from malnutrition... Dying where they stand...

Do you understand the hate you are being fed thisname?  Fog is spouting off to bring a fight to every Muslim in the world...  Is that right?  Is that the answer to all of our problems?

FogHorn, I'm just going to let you living in ignorance... When I lived in Nashville I met people just like you... All they could say is stupid n-word this and f-ing n-word that... It's all the n-words fault our country is in the piss-hole...  You say you remember the horrors of Hitler's Third Reich... Then why do you seem so inclined to repeat his faults?

Have you ever studied anything about Muslims or what they believe?  Ever read the Koran?  I highly doubt it, because if you had you would realize that what you are saying about being an "insane death cult" is completely inaccurate... Then along those same lines what would you refer to the Christian religions?  Ever heard of the Inquisitions?  Does that mean that every Christian is responsible for for the sins of a few?

[bob@pogopal]

Fatkid,

Let's take a look at your recent argument. You start with typical base socialist sophistry: "Any who disagree are ignorant or insane." "Foghorn is a perfect example of ignorance in America..."

Then you argue from your conclusions as axioms. "And so on and so on and so on..." Without acknowledging the possibility of any alternative such as one side achieving unquestioned victory as the Allies did in WWII.

Where does the violence end? I do not know, but I sure as hell hope for the world that it ends with unconditional victory for the forces of liberty.

The Nuremburg trials were trials of individuals who engaged in torture and wanton murder of civilian populations--unquestionably evil acts. Engine repair hardly falls into the same category. The comparison is absurd.

Apache helicopters are used to preserve the lives of their crews and the ground forces for whom they provide close air support as well as the lives of the larger society they defend. Thus, I conclude their purpose is equally for life as it is for death, which seems appropriate because there is no death without life nor any life without death.

"There is more to [the] story [of the terrorists who murdered Paul Johnson] than I will ever know..."

You won't know what they had for breakfast last week, but those minutiae strike me as irrelevant. The history of the middle east and particularly of the house of saud is readily available to any who are willing to look for themselve. But then again, you are the same individual who ignores more than a century of empirical evidence demonstrating the unquestionable evil of socialism and collectivism.

Did you really state that the Saudi nationals who committed this murder have known nothing but war and violence? The House of Saud has not gone to war for quite a while. If these men have known any war or violence, they sought it out in foreign lands to satisfy their own self-righteous blood-lust.

"And finally I point to the fact that over 10 of thousands of Middle Eastern civilians have been murdered"

To which thousands of middle eastern civilians do you refer? Certainly not to any enemy combatants. Who then? The civilians murdered by Saddam Hussein? Some other group? The victims of the Taliban? If you suggest the Americans have murdered thousand of civilians then you are simply lying.

The UN are a bunch of lying bastards appointed by totalitarian dictators. Who gives a shit what they say? Saddam Hussein used the sanctions as an excuse for starving his own people. The Kurdish north where the US prevented his murderous influence thrived even under sanctions.

Dan, your morals are perverse and evil. That's not too uncommon for a twenty-year-old. I hope you someday take the time to develop some rational morals and to understand a little bit of history.

[ZaLandCruiser]

I agreee with you Bob you made a great point  ;).

[SoaringUSAEagle]

Well, here goes another one of my final posts before I leave for basic training in Fort Jackson, SC until early September. 

I can see FogHorn's point of view since he has been around for longer than most of us here in the forum and has seen a hell of a lot more than I am sure he ever wanted to.  Should the media down and outright show these pictures and videos of the recent beheadings?  In my opinion, not without the family's permission.  It's a sad deal.  The media does make us look like the bad guys.  We can't show anything that they do because it's so damn inhumane.  The United States' Military has much more humane ways of taking care of business. 

This whole country has turned on the road that leads downhill.  A year and a half ago, and still to this day, people are bitching about our Pledge of Allegiance.  And with these types of people in the United States of America, everyone has to watch what they say, how they act, and what they think.  This is absolutely horrible.  Because one or two people bitch about the words in our Pledge of Allegiance, the rest of the nation has to suffer and kiss their ass?  I don't think so.  These 1% of people need to get the hell out of the United States and go to another country and see what they have living here.

Dan, I could say you are living in ignorance, but I don't stoop that low.  Everyone has their own views.  I don't know what state (mental) you are living in, but broaden the view a little.  I read your posts, and a few times you have went into the whole speech of, "So Fog let's say you catch them and kill them... Then what? They come and catch you and kill you... Then your friends catch them and kill them... Then their friends catch your friends and kill them... And so on and so on and so on..."  Violence will never end – period. 

Like I knew what kind of helicopters were being used in Saudi Arabia.  That doesn't make a shit to me because my point of, Mr. Paul Johnson not having anything to do with the deaths stands as that – HE HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE DEATHS.

I hope you read my previous post and thought about it.  Like I said and will repeat so you can think and see again... When vehicular homicides occur, does the family blame the mechanic for not fixing the vehicle?  Yes they can, but on another note.... What if it had been months prior when the mechanic worked on the vehicle?  I mean come on.  There are crazies out there.  I still do not see Mr. Johnson in participating with peoples' deaths that occurred thanks to use of the Apache Helicopters.

Here are your "what ifs" in a different form Dan (with spelling corrections I may add lol). "Here's a real quandary for you Jeff... What do you do when your staff sergeant orders you to gas hundreds of innocent people?  If you don't do it, you could be court marshaled, dishonorably dismissed, or worse yet shot on the spot for treason... A more real example... What happens when everyone is sitting around the jail with the POWs and you're ordered to "prepare" them for questioning... Subject them to starvation, beatings, humiliations, all not in accordance with the Geneva pacts as Army Reserve Staff Sgt. Chip Frederick and others facing trial have stated they were told by superiors to do..."  That is a "what if" in my eyes and I guess if it ever came down to me gassing people, then so be it.  I am an American Soldier and let me tell you if my Sergeant put me up to the task of gassing terrorists... I would be right on it.  Now let's say they are innocent bystanders or whatever you want to call them, I would tell my Sergeant he is wasting breath and I would walk away.  Call me an asshole...  But I will not gas just anyone.  NOW GET OFF YOUR HIGH HORSE AND GET BACK DOWN TO REALITY HERE.

And moving on to the several hundreds of thousands of middle eastern people being killed – I agree Bob, Dan you make it sound like that's the United States' fault 100%.  Comparing that the hundreds of soldiers we have lost in the war so far, to the thousands of middle eastern people that have been killed is not even close to logical because the people died for different reasons.  Yes we have killed innocent people over there.  But you have the right to compare these, so I wont say you don't, but its just not logical to do such a thing.  They have killed hundreds of us and we have killed hundreds of them.  We are not at fault for the hundreds of thousands of people over there that were killed in recent years.  Saddam Hussein and his regime are.

And Dan, there you go rambling on about President Bush again with the oil prices.  He has no say on what price they are.  Gas here is $1.78.  Did President Bush meander throughout the United States giving out the prices?  I don't believe he did.  The prices of oil are reflected by the actions that are taking place, but not directly because of President Bush. 

I just really wish the President bashing would quit because people are just skimming the surface of it all trying to point fingers just so satisfaction is gained.  I really hope John Kerry doesn't get into office, but if he does... I am anxious to see how he is going to handle things.  I am not one to judge so my thoughts remain in me until future notice.

And that's about all I have to say about that.

- Jeff

[FogHorn]

Thank you Soaring.  There's so much I would like to say.....but just want to tell the young ones to study and read history (Know The Facts!)  I too don't want to see Kerry in there....here's a little article from 1998 about flip flop Kerry:

1998: Kerry calls for ground troops to topple Saddam; Clinton not tough enough
The Boston Globe | February 23, 1998 | Aaron Zitner, Globe Staff


WASHINGTON -- Senator John F. Kerry, who began his public life as a Vietnam War protester, said yesterday that the United States should use ground troops to topple Iraqi President Saddam Hussein if he does not comply with international demands to give up chemical and biological weapons.

Kerry, a potential presidential candidate in 2000, said sending US troops into Iraq should be "the last option, but it is a legitimate option."

The state's junior senator said President Clinton had not been tough enough in his measures to subdue the Iraqi president.

Because Iraq will try to rebuild its chemical and biological weaponry after a US air attack, "we will not eliminate the problem for ourselves or for the rest of the world with a bombing attack," Kerry said.

Kerry said his conditional support for using ground troops put him "way ahead of the commander in chief, and I'm probably way ahead of my colleagues, and certainly of much of the country. But I believe this."


God Bless America, President Bush, Our Military (ESPECIALLY MY GRANDSON WITH SEAL TEAM 6)

[bob@pogopal]

All that said, I do criticize Bush.

He betrayed the soldiers for whom he is the civilian commander-in-chief. War by half-measures is evil and wrong. Both Bushes are guilty of this sin.

I suspect he was misled by the neoconservatives--a group with tribalistic and religious identity whose roots lie squarely in communism. Bush failed to man the armed forces for the war leaving the armed forces with too few personnel to secure the defeated Iraq -- leading to much misery, undermining the moral imperative that led to war and setting the stage for lingering bloodshed and ill-will in the region. And of course, killing more Americans than necessary in the process.

One can see this now with the "stop-loss" provisions and yet no conscription. ie. Forced service for those who have already served while taking no action to provide any future relief. This can only lead to bitter low morale.

I hope and pray November ends the Bush dynasty forever. I wish the Republicans had some way to choose a different candidate for the presidency.

On the bright side, at least Bush hasn't sullied the office.

[fatkid]

Bob,
"Any who disagree are ignorant or insane." was never my intended statement whether implicit or directly stated.  I'll play devil's advocate in these discussions just to hear others thoughtful points of view; it can only help to widen my own view...  What I said was that FogHorn is a perfect example of what I see as a societal problem, a microcosm if you will... You want to talk "any who disagrees" then head right there to FogHorn

Muslims all over the world go to their friday prayers and get an earful of "blame the jews, hate all non Muslims, kill all non Muslims, commit suicide for sex, etc." The entire religion is an insane death cult.

Muslim = violence

There it is right there in all of its blissful ignorance.  And my morals are perverse and evil?

You point to the Nuremberg Trials, and I will agree unconditionally, my example was very extreme... The actions of the German Army during WWII pale any actions done by Mr. Johnson...  You also point to the use of Apache helicopters and Mr Johnson's role played with them... As DJ stated earlier and brought to my full attention, without him more Americans die... I acknowledged that idea fully, and found it to be very insightful, something I hadn't considered in my original thoughts, and stated as an eye opener in my second (or third) large post (I'm not above listening to others or for that matter changing my ideas given new thoughts and ideas ;))...

You seem to say I'm blinded by my embrace of socialism... To that I can agree... As we have these talks and discussions I'm opened up to new possibilities every day... I say that your hatred/disgust/unwaivering attitude toward socialism blinds you as well... You say "Any who disagree are ignorant or insane." was an argument of mine... What is it you are telling me?  That all socialists "disregard years of empirical evidence"... That there is no merit what so ever to any type of socialist programs or governments... If I understand your attitude correctly (and correct me if I am wrong) that you care more about the self than about the collective good... That's a very capitalist attitude, that I am more important than the rest... I take an attitude that I am no more important than any other individual that has ever been alive, that my right to live is no better than any other person, be he a terrorist, a Muslim, an African, be he rich or poor... To me the problems of capitalism lie in the natures it breeds in it's constituents; greed... Horde everything you can before you die and forget the rest... That is where is see the greatest "evil" in capitalism, and where a socialist society can help to overcome that... That instead of having a few with money and power, that we can all rise up together, leaving as few behind as possible...

Jeff,
"Dan, I could say you are living in ignorance"
Living in ignorance of what?  That we need to stop killing each other?  That we can help raise a society out of its totalitarian dictatorship without ever having to fire a shot? I'm ignorant for believing in the power of love, of right, over the powers of hate and fear?
"Violence will never end – period."  Why not?  Because you won't let it?  Because people who are full of fear and hate won't let it?  Because we can't "broaden the view a little"?  If you took my he kills, she kills, he kills as a literal idea then I'm sorry... The point I was making was the absurdity of FogHorns idea's of let's kill 'em all, because all that kind of attitude breeds is more of the same ignorance... We can end violence, but we cannot end violence with violence...  And I'm living in ignorance?

"I would tell my Sergeant he is wasting breath and I would walk away.  Call me an asshole...  But I will not gas just anyone.  NOW GET OFF YOUR HIGH HORSE AND GET BACK DOWN TO REALITY HERE."
I don't think you're following along very well with me here... You're yelling for what we agree on... And as I said with my examples of the gassing, it wasn't a very real life example (i.e. I was in reality before you started yelling)... But you dodged the question (of the real life examples; torturing prisoners etc), if what your Sargent orders you to do is illegal, what do you do?

Now back to the deaths of the civilians in the Middle East;
They are well documented and very well reported on... Bombing BY THE U.S.A. in both Afghanistan and Iraq have killed 10s of thousands of CIVILIANS... Cluster bombing campaigns lead to the worst civilian casualty rates... These are not lies, or made up figures... Look to ANY news source and you can find the figures (I've linked to the most accurate counts I could find so far already)... These figures are not of people killed by the Taliban or by Saddam, but that are known civilians that were accidentally murdered by bombing runs from U.S. War ships and fighter plans...  There are 100s upon thousands of others that still have not been reported by A.P. reporting groups..

"the thousands of middle eastern people that have been killed is not even close to logical because the people died for different reasons."

I know, we died going in to liberate them, and they died when we went in to liberate them... It's crazy of me to see their deaths as related to American actions... And I'm not even dealing with the half-million children that have died from U.N. sanctions... Why not comment on it Jeff... Because a U.S. lead, U.N. sanctioned genocide of Iraqi children has you stumped... And I'm ignorant?

"We are not at fault for the hundreds of thousands of people over there that were killed in recent years. Saddam Hussein and his regime are."
Does punishing an entire country for one leaders actions make sense?  Does killing 1 child for a leaders actions make sense?  I sure as hell hope the world won't hold me responsible for what President Bush has done... But that is what the world, with the U.N., did to Iraq...

[bob@pogopal]

'"Any who disagree are ignorant or insane." was never my intended statement whether implicit or directly stated.' -- More sophistry. I didn't bother to read beyond the opening sentence. You already have my analysis of the matter. 'Nuff said.

[ZaLandCruiser]

Site Claims Police Helped in Abduction
By SALAH NASRAWI, AP

RIYADH, Saudi Arabia (June 20) - Al-Qaida militants disguised in police uniforms and cars provided by sympathizers in the Saudi security forces set up a fake checkpoint to snare the American engineer they later beheaded, according to an account of the operation posted on an Islamic extremist Web site Sunday.

   
   
   

The account of Paul M. Johnson Jr's abduction highlighted fears that some diplomats and Westerners in the kingom have expressed, that militants have infiltrated Saudi security forces, a possibility Saudi officials have denied.

In a separate article on the Web site, the leader of the al-Qaida cell behind the abduction justified the targeting of Johnson, pointing to his work on Apache attack helicopters for Lockheed Martin.

Johnson "works for military aviation and he belongs to the American army, which kills, tortures and harms Muslims everywhere, which supports enemies (of Islam) in Palestine, Philippines, Kashmir," wrote Abdulaziz al-Moqrin, who was killed by Saudi security forces in a gunbattle Friday night, hours after Johnson's slaying.

The articles in Sawt al-Jihad, or Voice of the Holy War, a semimonthly Internet periodical posted by al-Qaida in the Arabian Peninsula, came as police continued their search for Johnson's body and the militants involved in his death.

Police in armored vehicles and a helicopter sealed off three neighborhoods of the Saudi capital Sunday, searching any cars that tried to leave the areas.

The article said militants wearing police uniforms and using police cars set up a fake checkpoint June 12 on al-Khadma Road, leading to the airport, near Imam Mohammed bin Saud University.

"A number of the cooperators who are sincere to their religion in the security apparatus donated those clothes and the police cars. We ask God to reward them and that they use their energy to serve Islam and the mujahedeen," the article read.

   
More on This Story 
   
   
· Al-Qaida Cell Confirms al-Moqrin's Death
· New Jersey Town Mourns for Johnson
· World Leaders Condemn Hostage Slaying
· U.S. Companies Not Fleeing Saudi Arabia
· Americans in Saudi Arabia Fear for Attacks
· Saudi Anti-Extremist Campaign Ineffective


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
· AOL Search: Saudi Arabia   
   
When Johnson's car approached the checkpoint, the militants stopped his car, detained him, anesthetized him and carried him to another car, the article said. Earlier Saudi newspaper reports had also said Johnson was drugged during the kidnapping.

The article said they then blew up Johnson's car.

Security officials said last week that Johnson's car was found near Imam University. Saudi press reports said the car was booby-trapped and later caught fire.

On the same day as Johnson's abduction, militants shot and killed another American, Kenneth Scroggs of Laconia, N.H., in his garage in Riyadh.

Earlier that week, militants in the capital also shot and killed Irish cameraman Simon Cumbers, who was filming for the British Broadcasting Corp. when he was shot, and another American, Robert Jacobs of Murphysboro, Ill.

After the kidnapping, his captors said they would kill Johnson on Friday unless Saudi Arabia released jailed al-Qaida militants - a demand the Saudi government refused.

Sunday's al-Qaida article said the militants decided to behead Johnson when Adel al-Jubeir, foreign affairs adviser to Crown Prince Abdullah in Washington, declared that Saudi Arabia would not negotiate with the kidnappers.

"The stupid Saudi government took the initiative and announced by the Americanized tongue Adel Al-Jubeir that it will not submit to the conditions of the mujahedeen," the statement read.

The group said it beheaded Johnson, 49, when its deadline expired Friday.

Al-Moqrin's final article, written after Johnson's kidnapping, described the American as "an infidel, a warrior of the military."

Al-Moqrin replied to critics urging the release of Johnson, saying: "Do those people want to see this infidel carry on the killing of the children and the raping of the women in Baghdad and Kabul?"

"We can't preserve the dignity of Muslims but through these means," he wrote.

Al-Moqrin, believed to be the top al-Qaida figure in Saudi Arabia, was killed along with three other militants in a Riyadh gunbattle Friday night, hours after photos of Johnson's body and severed head were posted on a Web site.

The others killed were identified as Faisal Abdul-Rahman al-Dikheel, Turki bin Fuheid al-Muteiry and Ibrahim bin Abdullah al-Dreiham. Al-Dikheel was believed to be the No. 2 al-Qaida militant in Saudi Arabia.

One security officer was killed and two were wounded in the gunbattle, the official Saudi news agency reported.

The Interior Ministry said 12 suspected militants also were arrested in a sweep of the capital.

The ministry said authorities also confiscated forged identity papers, $38,000 in Saudi and American currency, three rocket-propelled grenade launchers, hand grenades, automatic rifles and other weapons.


06-20-04 14:36 EDT

[ZaLandCruiser]

Saudi officials claim Abdulaziz al-Moqrin, the reputed leader of al-Qaida in the kingdom, was killed in a shootout. (AP/Al Arabiya)

[fatkid]

And I'm the one staring blankly at emperical evidence?  You won't look at any points other than your own...

[bob@pogopal]

Dan,

I am well versed in the history of the region and of the world. I see no need to waste my time responding to sophistry or elevating sophistry beyond its true station.

If you want to pretend to engage in a well-reasoned rational discussion, you need to step up to the plate equipped for the game. I have already given your posts more than they deserve.

[fatkid]

Where is the deciet in my discussion?  Where do I not point to factual evidense where it can be pointed to?
If anyone is guilty of sophistry, you only need look in a mirror... I hear big claims from you, but I see no proof...
I'm not even about to get into a pissing contest, but I will not sit back and be called a liar, when the person making the claims is just as guilty as myself...

[bob@pogopal]

Dan,

You hijacked a memorial posted by those who grieve and anger over a heinous act of murder. You hijacked the memorial to spout ideological nonsense and the lowest sort of sophist crap. You now ask about your deceit: You repeated the UN's absurd and thoroughly debunked deceptions to support your ideology.

You can think of me whatever you will. I could not care any less what a blinded ideologue thinks of me.

I am sure you intend well. I respectfully suggest you are paving your road with your good intentions just as fervently as the Bushes paved theirs. I sincerely hope you someday realise the error of your ways and choose a different road.

[Blue Aquarius]

Dan,

You hijacked a memorial posted by those who grieve and anger over a heinous act of murder. You hijacked the memorial to spout ideological nonsense and the lowest sort of sophist crap. You now ask about your deceit: You repeated the UN's absurd and thoroughly debunked deceptions to support your ideology.

Thank you Bob!!  I said this in an earlier post but that got ignored.  So glad to see I am not the only one who feels that this thread was hijacked.

[ronandamee1]

Its a damn shame this guy had to die the way he did. None can justify it at all. The manner in which this man was killed was horrible and cruel. I saw the tape of the other guy being beheaded. If Mr. Johnson died the same way, in a sawing motion. I feel very bad for him and his family. The whole building helicopters thing: Who knows if the terrorists even knew thats what he did? They killed him because he was American. I pray that at least a couple of those apache's he repaird can offer him some vengance by killing at least some of the men responsible for what happened to him. No one deserves what Mr. Johnson got. I also don't think what goes on in our pow camps to what goes on in their pow camps. They are chopping fuc)ing heads off for christs sake. When some american over there takes out his knife and chops one of their heads off, then you can compare. But if it helps the soldiers to undress those idiot Iraqi Wimps that could not even protect their own country. More power to them...lol

My favorite quote will be from Chris Rock today:

If Iraq was such a threat, how did we take it over in two weeks? You could not take over Baltimore in two weeks.  ;)                                                                                 >>>edited by YZrider<<<

[TonySoprano]

Murder is murder. Thus it scarcely matters if a person is shot, stabbed, or in the case of Paul Johnson, beheaded.  But that medieval form of death still deepens our shock at the brutal taking of an innocent life of a father, husband, and son whose only crime was being among 30,000 Americans who live and work in Saudi Arabia.  We are bound to a weak ally in Saudi soil.  They need our skills and manpower, we need their oil. A family grieves. A nation recoils in horror. Yet the task remains the same: to stand firm, to strike our foes with all our might, and to demand that our "friends" do no less.

[ronandamee1]

Murder is murder. Thus it scarcely matters if a person is shot, stabbed, or in the case of Paul Johnson, beheaded.  But that medieval form of death still deepens our shock at the brutal taking of an innocent life of a father, husband, and son whose only crime was being among 30,000 Americans who live and work in Saudi Arabia.  We are bound to a weak ally in Saudi soil.  They need our skills and manpower, we need their oil. A family grieves. A nation recoils in horror. Yet the task remains the same: to stand firm, to strike our foes with all our might, and to demand that our "friends" do no less.

I agree with you that the Saudi's are weak little bitches and we should stand together. I definitely do not think murder is murder and I don't think Paul Johnson agrees with you either. If I were him I would have been begging to be shot. This is where I shall bring the word torture into the conversation. Sawing a man's head off and taking pictures makes me think of torture. Not just murder. Dumb Iraqi pricks. We have enough bombs we should have decimated the whole country into nothing. Or just left the stupid pricks alone until they finally pissed us of enough to decimate them into oblivion. Would you miss the head sawing pricks or their kids that would grow up to be (guess what) Head sawing pricks too.